Wednesday, April 16, 2008

WELCOME POPE BENEDICT XVI


Here is an excerpt of a speech the Pope gave at the White House. Welcome to America Pope Benedict XVI...

"As the nation faces the increasingly complex political and ethical issues of our time, I am confident that the American people will find in their religious beliefs a precious source of insight and an inspiration to pursue reasoned, responsible and respectful dialogue in the effort to build a more human and free society.
Freedom is not only a gift, but also a summons to personal responsibility. Americans know this from experience - almost every town in this country has its monuments honoring those who sacrificed their lives in defense of freedom, both at home and abroad. The preservation of freedom calls for the cultivation of virtue, self-discipline, sacrifice for the common good, and a sense of responsibility towards the less fortunate. It also demands the courage to engage in civic life and to bring one's deepest beliefs and values to reasoned public debate."

18 comments:

Mike said...

As long as women don't insist on being treated as equals. He forgot that part of Catholic doctrine.

Nikki said...

Mike, I am not Catholic so I can't speak for Catholic women. Sometimes men and women have different roles, neither of which are more important than the other. You can't hold the laws in a religion to a social standard. :)N

Freadom said...

The Lords prayer was also sung in Washington.

Khaki Elephant said...

I really, really, really, hate to agree with Mike again :-), but I also have trouble when an institution practices something so fundamentally wrong a sexism. You are right, Nikki, that there are different roles for women within the church, but when the ultimate direction of the church is determined it is done so by men and men alone. And the scripture they use to support this practice is pretty flimsy.

I love the intellectual approach that the Vatican takes toward theological issues, but am troubled by some of their social decisions.

Nikki said...

Hey khaki, I take it you aren't Catholic. I am not either but I respect his Holiness and appreciate the great Catholics in our country who strive to do good. I think a lot of people would have the same insinuation of my church. I do think religion is a personal thing and only catholics can explain their faith and an adherence to it. I appreciate the male folk sticking up for the women folk but to me religion should not take on a social influence. Perhaps the progresssion any particular religion takes within itself is slow and hopefully sanctioned by God, however, this is why we choose to worship where we do or don't. :)N

Nikki said...

follow-up comment: Feminism has fuzzied the lines for many religions and has confused the role of women in our society. I understand my role in God's world and in society, I think of them as two different things. :)N

Nikki said...

oh and no one is allowed to agree with Mike...hehe he is the one that keeps it fun around here, I am thinking about hiring him! :)N

Thinking Sage said...

hell I thought the Caths were the most woman friendly????
hmmmm
I dunno.
the post was right on though.

ba and the boys said...

'It also demands the courage to engage in civic life and to bring one's deepest beliefs and values to reasoned public debate.'

i dont think people have the balls to do this. i think there was a time where you were respected for your relgion/christlike behavior and somehow, somewhere it became 'uncool'.
no matter what church you belong/not belong to, i think we all need to step it up and behave the way we know we should, not the way we (and i can include myself in ths at times) do behave.

Karen said...

Hi Nikki; Interesting debate going on here! Found you through your comment at Incognito's place. My post on my blog was on the Pope today, too. Like you, I'm not a Catholic but find the ceremony and occasion really interesting.

Khaki Elephant said...

Niki, you're right that I'm not Catholic but I am considering conversion (since my wife and children love the church and I enjoy their systematic approach to theology . . . even when they're wrong :-). But this is one of the points in the church that keeps me from joining the flock (along with all that kneeling, bad knees you know).

St. Paul wrote "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." I believe that and find it difficult to except women being excluded from leadership. Maybe if they were there the sex scandal wouldn't have been buried as long as it was.

But in the end, you are right (and not just because this is your blog) that religion is a personal choice and as such should stay sacred and apart from social influence. So, let's talk about the separation of church and state :-)

Khaki Elephant said...

Am I the only one who suspects that the Pope is trying out his Superman impression in that photo?

Nikki said...

Khaki, what is it that you would like for the women in the Catholic Church to be able to do do? :)N

Khaki Elephant said...

I think they should be eligible for ordination, even the papel seat. This time I'll turn to St. Peter (the first Pope) who said that we are all high priests. Why not make that legit?

My wife (a cradle catholic) disagrees with me, but says it is just because of the way she was raised. Perhaps that's why I'm more open to the idea. To expose my roots, I've been a long-time American Baptist. Now, there are a couple hundred types of Baptists in the world with very different ideas, we're the branch in which Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. served as a pastor. We tend to have an open theology which includes the ordaination of women. I guess for me it seems unnatural for a church to practice otherwise.

Nikki said...

Khaki, I think we could talk all day long about the interpretation of scripture, especially when a lot of the Bibles used today are changed into modern language. I would have to know the scriptural reference. High Priests are after the order of God and I think that would be very gender specific. Sometimes modern churches take on their own interpretations to satisfy modern trends like feminism. I can be feministic about some things but when it comes to God I reject societies definition of what is equal in his kingdom. Great chat. :)N

Khaki Elephant said...

I tend to agree that we could talk forever on the subject when ultimately there will always be varied interpretations because we are all merely human trying to understad what is beyond human understanding.

Khaki Elephant said...

OK, OK, I know I was finished but I will make one last comment . . . I can't help myself :-).

I agree that it is dangerous when social influence guides our interpretations of God's word, but I would argue that it was social, not spiritual, influences that have kept women from leadership positions in many religious institutions. It is not just a coincidence that the role of women in these churches was established in a time and/or culture where patriarchal authority was the norm. I don't see that as following the will of God, but the dictates of society.

The Bible was actually ahead of it's time in identifying women in leadership positions given that it was written over a span of centuries when they were not even allowed to inherit land. Deborah was the religious leader of a nation, serving as judge over Israel while Mary Magdalene was God's choice to be the first apostle (given the definition of an individual commissioned directly by Jesus to proclaim the resurrection gospel).

OK, now I'm done. For real. ;)

Nikki said...

Hey Khaki, Deborah and Esther are both strong women in Jewish tradition. In Christian tradition I believe a Mary was a disciple and not an Apostle. She did not attend the last supper and the 12 Apostles that were called to labor as Christ were all men. Mary was a disciple not an Apostle and there is a difference. For me personally I would have issues with a church that did allow women to hold a "priest" position because I don't agree that scripture supports this claim. The rest of the world may see my church as sexist but I see it as doctrinally consistent with scripture. Religion is a great topic if it stays cordial and I appreciate all views that differ from mine. Clarity is far more important that agreement!! thanks! :)N